Recruiting Tip: Treat Your Candidates Like Customers [Endless Customers Podcast S.1 Ep.18]

Alex
0:00:00
So Allison, I'm reading a quote from JobVite that says that a third of all new employees quit within 90 days of being hired. Is that, that's real? That's a real metric?

Allison
0:00:08
Yeah, Alex, companies are not leading with transparency and trust in their recruiting process. And so they are not getting qualified candidates moving all the way through the pipeline. That's why it's so important to apply the concepts we're gonna talk about today in order to make sure you're getting the best candidates that are gonna stick around.

Alex
0:00:30
Let's talk about it.

Allison
0:00:31
Let's talk about it.

Alex
0:00:32
Let's talk about it.

Alex
0:00:53
Hey Alex, how are you? I'm great, I'm great. How are you? Living in the sunshine, man. Yeah, living in the sunshine. It's nice and beautiful and warm and sunny where you are. I'm jealous it's not so much here. But thank you for being back on the show.

Alex
0:01:05
I can't wait to talk to you today. We're talking about recruiting, but a really interesting angle on recruiting, I think we're kind of breaking the mold here. We're talking about why you need to start thinking about your recruiting or your candidates similar to how you treat your customers.

Allison
0:01:20
So can you tell us a little bit high level what that means before we get into the weeds of it? Yeah, we talk a lot about client engagements or potential clients and how we're building trust and using transparency to build that trust and to also use content and to use educational resources well, what's stopping us from doing the same things in our recruiting and onboarding processes as well?

Allison
0:01:46
Speeding up that candidate recruiting cycle, having more educated candidates in our pipeline and building that trust in transparency so they know exactly who they are coming to work for even before they sign that contract.

Alex
0:02:04
I love that. I really love that. And I have a stat here that John provided for us and it says that a study that was done in 2018 from Jobvite said that a third of all new employees, a third, quit within 90 days

of starting their job. That sounds like an epidemic. Like that sounds terrible.

Alex
0:02:20
Do you think this plays into that or like why do you think that is?

Allison
0:02:24
Yeah, I think just like with potential clients, you can set poor expectations and then not live up to those expectations on the other end. And so as an employer, it is our duty to paint the best picture possible and to have educated employees that know not just about working with us as an organization,

Allison
0:02:47
but what stops us from helping to educate people who love their industry or their role as well so that they truly know that they're making the best decision when they come to work for us?

Alex
0:02:59
Yeah, and as a coach, you get to interface with a lot of companies and a lot of different industries and clientele, so I feel like you really have a good perspective on this. What do you see typically with most companies as they're growing, as you're coaching them and they need to start hiring on new people? What does that look like on a day-to-day basis?

Allison
0:03:17
Yeah, well, definitely from a coach perspective, and also, interestingly enough, in another life, I was a recruiter.

Allison 0:03:23
So this is...

Alex
0:03:24
Oh, wow, okay.

Allison
0:03:25
Actually, yeah, so this is a really interesting mix for me, and somewhat of a passion, because in coaching, I love helping businesses become the best that they can be, and also, on the individual side, I love helping employees and team members specifically be the best that they can be in the right role and in the right environment that helps them build that growth.

Allison
0:03:49
And a lot of times helping companies realize that shift of treating your candidates just like you would potential clients is something that they've never thought about before. And once they start to realize, wow, we can create efficiencies and be more effective in our recruiting process, we're not only getting better candidates,

Allison

0:04:12
but we're getting better employees. And when we have better employees, we have better customer service, we've become more efficient and effective internally, we see a shift and acceleration in our culture that ultimately affects the business as a whole. And every business that I talk to either has a recruiting problem,

Allison
0:04:37
at some point in their business, they have a recruiting problem or they have a retention problem. And this idea of bringing in trust and transparency, using content and video in the recruiting process helps solve for that time, energy, and bottom line issue. When we can't service clients

Allison
0:04:59
because we don't have enough employees or the employees aren't meeting the expectations of our clients or producing the amount of products that we need, that impacts the business as a whole. And so running a tight ship internally with your team members ultimately impacts the business. And making sure that if we've said as a company, hey, we want to be the trusted voice in our space,

Allison
0:05:23
that does not just apply externally. That is an internal promise as well, that we want to live in trust, in transparency with our team members as well.

Alex
0:05:33
That's very well said, and it's very, they ask, you answer. Because if you really believe in building trust, then it's part of the whole organization. It's not just one facet, it's the whole company, and that's from the top down, from leadership all the way down, so I love hearing that. For companies and for people that are listening and watching right now, what are some of the problems

Alex
0:05:51
that you've seen? Do you have any stories you could share of people that didn't really execute the recruiting thing or the retention thing very well, and then negatively what happened to their company because of it?

Allison
0:06:02
Yeah, I would say on that expectations piece, right? That quote that you pulled before is, there is the, we have to hire people like right now. And so let's just start hiring. Let's get in as many candidates as possible. Let's cut the corners or lower our expectations in the recruiting process, but then not change that bar in the role expectations. And so you have, you know, recruiting teams or HR team members that might not even be

Allison
0:06:37
fully aligned with the hiring manager or the manager of that role. And so because we've been in a state where we just need to hire people. We haven't really fulfilled the promises to ourselves as a company and even to the employees that we're potentially hiring as well. And I've seen this specifically in, I would say sales roles, where we were okay with the mediocre sales candidates

Allison

0:07:09
that came in the door with the hopes that we could make them into absolutely amazing sales team members. And we didn't ask the right questions. And we didn't set the expectations of, hey, in your role, you are going to need to create one-to-one videos, use video. It is going to be not just a selling tool, like virtual selling, where you're in these types

Allison
0:07:34
of Zoom calls, but it's also going to be using video throughout your sales process. It is going to be a subject matter expert. You are going to be the expert in our organization around the services and products that we provide. And so I have one client specifically who's like, ah, it's okay, we'll figure it out. Or, oh no, we don't need to do

Allison
0:07:57
what we would call like a situational activity. We don't need to have them practice and show us that they can meet this expectation, even a little bit. And then six months down the road, we've wasted some time, energy, and money

Allison
0:08:13
investing in these team members

Allison
0:08:14
who ultimately didn't work out.

Alex
0:08:15
Right, and that's the thing,

Alex
0:08:16
the cost of team members not working out is exponentially greater than investing the time up front. But you also said something really fascinating that I see all the time as well, where it's a great thing that your company's scaling and you have all this demand, and you need to meet this demand. It's a good problem to have, as we say,

Alex
0:08:33
but that's where it sounds like some of those mistakes are made where it's like, hurry up and go. This quote that everyone says that I like, I hate this quote, but everyone says it, build the plane while we're flying it. I'm like, I don't know, if you've ever flown a plane before that doesn't work out so good. You gotta build it while it's on the ground, right?

Alex
0:08:47
So it sounds like these things are really critical to finding the right people and long-term success with your business. So what can recruiters or business owners do? You were talking about, I think you said situational activity like what are some things like that that people can implement and start doing to find those better candidates and long-term success?

Allison

0:09:06
Yeah, so the first thing that clients should do is map out that candidate process, which isn't just the interviews, but what are even the milestones that you want them to be able to hit as they're going through this process? And so think about it just like you would a sales process. What's stage one, stage two, stage three, and stage four? And then add the different types of education or requirements or knowledge

Allison
0:09:41
that you want both the candidate to have, and then even for you as a hiring manager or the recruiter to have as well. And once you've mapped that out, and it feels very crystal clear on how one person moves from one stage to the next, then you can start to create content, written content or video content

Allison
0:10:04
to supplement and accelerate that process. And what I mean by that is, and we're just talking about the recruiting process internal. What are typically the same questions that you get in every single stage of that recruiting and hiring process.

Alex
0:10:26
This kind of sounds like an 80% video. I'm just saying, am I right in saying that?

Allison
0:10:32
It is, it can look like a lot of different things. And yes, an 80% video is a great example. And so even thinking about that first stage of the recruiting process, what are typically the five to six most common questions And the goal of that 80% video, or the article that you write, or maybe even a guide with multiple articles

Allison
0:10:59
that you put together, how do you help candidates qualify themselves from the very beginning of your recruiting process? And by creating a video or a piece of written content that clearly outlines what it looks like to be in this role or those questions that people ask to help themselves self-qualify, that is going to get you better qualified candidates

Allison
0:11:29
through the rest of the process. And it should be the exact same thought process in every stage of your recruiting and hiring process, is what education do these candidates need at every stage in order to determine whether or not this is the right fit for them from a role standpoint, but then also within your organization and your company culture as well.

Alex
0:12:01
The culture piece is huge, because it really plays into the perception on both sides. So it really helps build your culture and establish what you stand for as an organization. But then for the candidates, they know pretty quickly whether they're a right fit, a wrong fit, if they like the vibe. It just clearly paints that picture

Alex

0:12:18
and it saves everybody time. So it's a win-win, because you can either qualify people that are really aligned to have success, or disqualify people and know right away, like hey, respectfully, let's not waste anybody's time. I love that.

Allison
0:12:30
So. Yeah, sounds like a claims we make video.

Alex
0:12:32
Yeah, exactly. Sounds like a claims we make video. There's a lot of video talk in here. You're talking to the video guys. I love, I love this idea because it's really based in the ask you answer, just applying it internally instead of externally. So instead of doing these external marketing campaigns

Alex
0:12:46
to draw in better customers by building trust, you're doing the same thing internally to draw in new talent. I love it.

Allison 0:12:52 I love it.

Allison
0:12:53
I wanna come back, Alex, really quickly because I did mention the situational activity and I want to expand on that a little bit more because it really is a key part of what I've seen to be successful in the recruiting and hiring process.

Alex
0:13:08
Yeah, let's talk about that. Definitely.

Alex
0:13:10 Yeah, what?

Alex
0:13:11
I was gonna say, because I don't know what that is. I understand situational activity, I have an idea, but let's get into what that means and how that plays out.

Allison
0:13:18
So here's a great example.

Allison
0:13:19
I have a client currently that we are working on their recruiting process, and specifically because they are hiring a new sales team member. So the first thing we did, map that journey out of what they need from expectations and what we need, and also the qualification process. Towards the end of this process with the sales position specifically,

Allison
0:13:45
we want to see how well they could perform in an impromptu sales conversation. The situational activity, depending on the role, is an activity that they would perform regularly in this position at the company. So for this sales role, it is that sales conversation. And so what we did is we created a fake scenario, which can be based a little bit in reality

Allison
0:14:16
of what a, they decided to go with a discovery call. So what would that first discovery call look like? And we painted the picture for the candidates. This is, you know, you are representing X company. This is the potential client. I, as the recruiter, I'm going to play the role as the potential client. And your goal during this mock sales call is to get as much information to discover what solution they really need.

Allison
0:14:49
And so then that's the activity. You schedule that call, either you can do in person or you can do virtually as well, and you schedule that 30 minute mock role play, that mock scenario that they would do on a potentially daily or weekly basis.

Alex
0:15:09
Yeah, it's almost like an audition tape. Like if you're an actor or an actress, it's almost like submitting your audition tape to see if you can get the part, and it allows the director to see if you can handle it, and if you have the right tone, and whatever they're specifically looking for. That's really, really interesting.

Allison
0:15:25
And there's a couple of things that you can look for in that type of activity, is you don't expect perfection, right? Like, don't expect to be absolutely perfect. People are gonna be nervous, this is a little bit different than they're probably used to in the hiring process. But look for, you know, the questions that they ask in in that mock interview.

Allison
0:15:47
Look for how they they hold themselves. They might not ask the best questions, but we can help them change their questions. Look for their presence. Look for how they engage. Look at how curious they are, how much they settle for a first surface level answer, or if they dig deeper. Think about it from just is this person that has the potential to make it in this role?

Allison
0:16:16
And even in that mock activity, you'll see some of that culture stuff, right?

6
0:16:20 You'll see-

Alex 0:16:21

Yeah, it allows you to find those core qualities that you're trying to find, and then the rest of it, you can fine tune and sculpt and shape the questions or whatever the case may be, but you're trying to find those core pieces that you know you need to have in order to be successful.

Allison
0:16:34
And that's a great activity for you to do as the recruiter or the hiring manager, is what are my expectations? What are the things that are hard yes or hard no that I'm looking for in this mock interview? Okay, Allison, so we talked about the recruiting process

Alex
0:16:49
and the details of what you should be trying to do and new ways to approach it, but how do you, from a marketing standpoint, even get people to become candidates? How do you attract them and say, hey, we're hiring, or hey, we're looking for X, Y, and Z? What's that look like?

Alex
0:17:04
Cool, I love this, and of course,

Allison
0:17:06
you've got my they ask, you answer wheels turning. Yes. Where you wanna think about it the same way you would with clients, and that's what we mean by treating candidates like you would clients, is you want to create content, written content and videos that someone in the very beginning stages of their journey looking for a type of position that you're offering would be looking for.

Allison
0:17:31
So, think about it like the big five, is cost then turns into salary, where we would then say, what is the average salary of a salesperson in a HCM or HR company? And now what we're doing is we're writing articles that our potential qualified candidates would be searching for in their job search, and they are asking these types of questions

Allison
0:17:59
that's going to lead them to open positions. So think about it, we talk about the big five, is cost turns into salary. Problems is problems. Your comparisons or your versus could be actually working for two different companies. So comparing yourself to another company, so getting those brand names in there.

Allison
0:18:26
Or maybe it's even sales coordinator versus sales manager in an HCM company. Your, and then so just apply it to the other big five as well is really just think about this as what are our candidates actually searching for in their job search? And how can we help educate them in the industry as a whole? I have a compliance company that is doing really,

Allison
0:18:51
really well with this because they always need new auditors. So they are writing the type of content that potential auditors are looking for when not only they're on the job hunt, but also as they're continuing to grow in their career. So we've got some content that's geared towards entry-level

beginners, but then we're even creating content that seasoned auditors are looking for,

Allison
0:19:22
like certifications or continuing education, and guess what? Guess where they're learning about how to become more seasoned in their career, Alex?

Alex
0:19:32
I'm gonna guess LinkedIn, or?

Allison
0:19:34
They're looking on LinkedIn, which is where we're posting our content, right? Like we're posting our content on LinkedIn, but now we're drawing them back to our website. We're now there learning how to become the best auditor on the planet on one of the best auditing companies' websites.

Alex
0:19:53
Yeah, and that's the key. That transitions point from like being on LinkedIn or whatever recruiting site and actually taking the time to go to the website and spend time on the site and learn. It means that there's intrigue. It means that there's another level of good things happening there other than just like,

Alex
0:20:08
oh, let me just fill out this application and send it through LinkedIn and hopefully I'll hear something back. Because then you just end up in the pile.

Allison 0:20:14 Yeah.

Allison
0:20:15
You just end up in the pile. Versus, here's the cool thing too, right? If you're using a CRM, you're using a tool that also helps you track that information, you can apply that for candidates as well. So when they come into your website, they're reading multiple articles,

Allison
0:20:31
they click that button that sends them, that call to action that sends them to your careers page, they fill out a form and they start the process, we can then see that whole journey. We can see, okay, when Alex applied for this videographer position, how many articles did he read? How many pages did he view on our website?

Allison
0:20:52
What was the path that led him to apply for this position? And there is so much wealth of information that we can learn about people when we apply the same principles that we would when we're bringing in really great clients to bringing in really great candidates.

Alex

0:21:09
That's fascinating. I'm really blown away of the idea of using the Big Five and using a CRM that you would normally be using on the front end to do the same thing internally. And hey, you can track all this stuff to the point where you can learn about your own recruiting process. And maybe there's some holes or some gaps

Alex
0:21:24
that you can fix and change, and you can actually do that because you have the data to back it up. It's not just like a guessing game, right?

Allison
0:21:30
Yeah, and especially when you are able to track it where you've got those gaps that you're saying, of like, why are candidates falling off here? Like at the very, let's say the stage four of our process, then you should, as a company, dig in. Why are we losing people? What are the specific reasons? What are we missing in the conversations

Allison
0:21:55
from the very beginning, or maybe even the stage before, that's leading people to fall off? And really just evaluating, are we just getting poor candidates? And if we're getting poor candidates, how do we create better content? How do we create better flows and bring in those better candidates from the beginning?

Allison
0:22:15
And that way we can move people through the funnel a lot easier and a lot more confidently.

Alex
0:22:21
That makes total sense. So I'm going to go back to earlier we talked about some of the faux pas or bad things that you've seen with companies. But you interface with a lot of different companies. Have you seen some success with this? And maybe can you share a story of somebody who adopted this ideology and is hiring the best talent

Alex
0:22:37
and it's done really well for their business?

Allison
0:22:39
Yeah, so I'm thinking of a specific company, and I'm not sure if they want me to mention them or not, or if that's what we're looking for, but it is a company that really took this concept to heart with multiple positions within their organization. Meaning, they mapped out the process and they created videos from their hiring manager from the very beginning of the process.

Allison
0:23:07
They incorporated content that really clearly stated, here is a great fit for this role, and here's somebody who might not be a great fit for this role. And they walked people through that process. They created videos that talked about their culture. They created the 80% videos for the questions that are being asked at every single stage.

Allison
0:23:33
They created situational activities for their content manager, their customer service. Every line it sounds like, yeah, wow. Every single new role that they brought into this organization, they applied the concepts of they ask, you answer. They applied the concepts of building trust, bringing in education at every single stage, and they have found absolutely amazing talent

Allison
0:24:04
in every single position that they've brought in and they've retained those employees for two plus years. At least, now remember, they've only been working with me for two years now, so I can just say that when this company specifically brought this concept in and really wanted to have the most quality candidates come in, they didn't settle. They made it very clear from the very beginning

Allison
0:24:32
of their recruiting process, who was a good fit, who was a good fit for their culture, but who was a good fit for the role. They were very clear on the expectations. And then they used content and video throughout even their onboarding process. And then they created a really great referral page and a really great referral system

Allison
0:24:52
that their employees said, hey, from the very beginning to the very end, you're gonna know exactly who this company is. You're gonna know the expectations of the role. They're gonna give you a mock interview that isn't to make you feel bad if you're not absolutely perfect, but it's to show the areas ahead of time

Allison
0:25:12
where you're gonna excel. And from the very first day, the areas that we need to work on.

Alex
0:25:19
Well said, I think that's amazing. Can you share what industry they're in, perhaps?

Allison
0:25:24
They are also in the HCM industry. They are, okay, cool, very cool.

Alex
0:25:28
So my last question for you, because this is great for businesses and that's an amazing success story, what's it like for the people on the other end that are candidates? So like, for people that are listening and watching out there that maybe are trying to find a new job or that may be transitioning

Alex
0:25:43
into a new role or whatever the case is, what should they be looking for to make sure that they are finding these companies that are thinking about these same things?

Allison

0:25:51
Yeah, so starting off with your due diligence in your job search and in your job hunt. Of course, right, our first instinct is to go to the job boards, which is great. You still should do that. But why not start off your search in Google? Maybe start off your search just learning more about the industry that you're going after

Allison
0:26:13
and the role itself. And when you start to find companies that are answering those questions for you openly and transparently on their website, that is a great indicator that if they're gonna treat their employees this way, they're gonna treat their candidates this way, it will almost always trickle over

Allison
0:26:31
to the client and the customer side. Really, see if you can find that. Go out and look. Hopefully, you find some of the companies that we've worked with who are implementing this already. But start off that search just like you would any other product or service that you're looking for and see if there are companies talking about it. And when you get in there, if they're not implementing some of the things that

Allison
0:26:58
you've heard today, why not be the catalyst of change and bring those ideas to them in their recruiting process? Ask them if they have a video or any education that you can do as a candidate before your next interview. Why not pitch the idea of, hey, I think I'm a really great fit for this role, and I think writing a, conducting an interview and writing an article for you based on an interview with the CEO

Allison
0:27:28
would be a great way to show you my talent live and kind of impromptu. Would you be up for something like that?

Alex 0:27:35
I love that.

Allison
0:27:36
It's a great angle.

Alex 0:27:37 I think.

Alex
0:27:38
Yeah, why not?

Alex
0:27:39
You gotta stand out, and that's a great way to stand out and separate yourself from the rest. Allison, you rock. I love talking with you. There's a ton of insights and a really great conversation today, but

before we go, for people watching and listening, if they have any more questions

Alex
0:27:53
or they wanna follow up with you, how can they get in touch with you? What's the best way to reach out?

Allison
0:27:57
Oh, well, if I didn't say LinkedIn first, then this wouldn't be a great recruiting podcast. But yes, find me on LinkedIn, Alison V. Riggs. You can also email me here at impactariggs at impactplus.com. You can find me on the Impact Plus website as well. And you can always reach out to Alex and he can help you get my information too.

Allison
0:28:20
Alison, thanks again for being on the show.

Alex
0:28:21
I'm Alex Winter. This is Endless Customers This is Endless Customers and we'll see you on the next episode.

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